Pentagoth: Difference between revisions
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'''Pentagoth''' is the rank-3 2.5.7.17(.11.13.19.23)[9 & 16 & 21] temperament and its variants, which can be used to extend existing 7-limit temperaments. It tempers out 2023/2000, the '''Pentagoth comma'''. The rank-3 temperament is generated by a sharp 5/4 (~390¢) and half of 7/5 (~287¢ * 2 = ~574¢), interpreted as a sharp 20/17, a roughly in-tune 13/11, and a flat 19/16. 7/4 is found at two 20/17s stacked with a 5/4, and 17/16 itself is the ~103¢ semitone between the two generators. Stacking the two generators results in a flat fifth of ~677¢, used in the 17:20:25 triad. | '''Pentagoth''' is the rank-3 2.5.7.17(.11.13.19.23)[9 & 16 & 21] temperament and its variants, which can be used to extend existing 7-limit temperaments. It tempers out 2023/2000, the '''Pentagoth comma'''. The rank-3 temperament is generated by a sharp 5/4 (~390¢) and half of 7/5 (~287¢ * 2 = ~574¢), interpreted as a sharp 20/17, a roughly in-tune 13/11, and a flat 19/16. 7/4 is found at two 20/17s stacked with a 5/4, and 17/16 itself is the ~103¢ semitone between the two generators. Stacking the two generators results in a flat fifth of ~677¢, used in the 17:20:25 triad. | ||
'''Sidewalk''' is a rank-2 2.5.7.17... temperament that supports Pentagoth; it is generated by a neominor third, two of which stacks to a flat 7/5. | |||
== 2.5.7: an introduction == | == 2.5.7: an introduction == | ||
Revision as of 17:51, 16 June 2026
Pentagoth is the rank-3 2.5.7.17(.11.13.19.23)[9 & 16 & 21] temperament and its variants, which can be used to extend existing 7-limit temperaments. It tempers out 2023/2000, the Pentagoth comma. The rank-3 temperament is generated by a sharp 5/4 (~390¢) and half of 7/5 (~287¢ * 2 = ~574¢), interpreted as a sharp 20/17, a roughly in-tune 13/11, and a flat 19/16. 7/4 is found at two 20/17s stacked with a 5/4, and 17/16 itself is the ~103¢ semitone between the two generators. Stacking the two generators results in a flat fifth of ~677¢, used in the 17:20:25 triad.
Sidewalk is a rank-2 2.5.7.17... temperament that supports Pentagoth; it is generated by a neominor third, two of which stacks to a flat 7/5.
2.5.7: an introduction
Here's a list of some of the best temperaments with their mappings of 5 and 7:
- 6 & 25: Didacus 2 5
- 16 & 21: Llywelyn 7 -1
- 16 & 25: Mabilic 3 -5
- 21 & 25: Sidewalk -7 -5
- 21 & 31: Miracle -7 -2
- 15 & 16: Rainy 5 -3
- 15 & 22: Porcupine -5 6
All of these are pretty well-established names, except for Sidewalk, which I came up with.
2.5.7 also generally takes the 6-form, with didacus serving a similar role for it as meantone does for 2.3.5 (in fact, didacus can be seen as a much more accurate restriction of septimal meantone, via the logic above).
Many apparent gaps in the temperament range are filled when 3/2 is not considered to be a target interval.
An asidewalk
- 823543/800000 -> 2.5.7[21 & 25]; CWE 287.441¢, CE 287.185¢.
Pentagoth temperament
| Gens | -3 | -2 | -1 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 3 |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 6 | 49/46 | ||||||
| 5 | 49/34 | 26/23 | |||||
| 4 | 49/25 | 28/23 49/40 | 26/17 35/23 49/32 | 44/23 | |||
| 3 | 28/17 38/23 | 26/25 35/34 | 22/17 13/10 49/38 | 13/8 | |||
| 2 | 28/25 19/17 49/44 | 32/23 7/5 | 40/23 7/4 44/25 | 11/10 25/23 35/32 | 11/8 26/19 | ||
| 1 | 38/25 | 32/17 19/10 49/26 | 20/17 13/11 19/16 | 28/19 52/35 34/23 25/17 | 13/7 35/19 | 22/19 | |
| 0 | 32/25 14/11 | 8/5 35/22 | 1/1 | 5/4 44/35 | 11/7 25/16 | ||
| -1 | 19/11 | 14/13 38/35 | 34/25 19/14 23/17 35/26 | 32/19 22/13 17/10 | 20/19 52/49 17/16 | 25/19 | |
| -2 | 16/11 19/13 | 64/35 20/11 46/25 | 8/7 23/20 25/22 | 10/7 23/16 | 88/49 34/19 25/14 | ||
| -3 | 16/13 | 20/13 17/11 76/49 | 68/35 25/13 | 17/14 23/19 | |||
| -4 | 23/22 | 64/49 17/13 46/35 | 80/49 23/14 | 50/49 | |||
| -5 | 23/13 | 68/49 | |||||
| -6 | 92/49 |
Tempering process
- Given a 2.5.7 temperament where 7/5 is split in half, 5/4 * sqrt(7/5) makes a flat fifth like 25/17. The supraminor third 49/40 is also close to 17/14. Equating these pairs tempers out 2023/2000, which I've decided to call the Pentagoth comma due to being the first and most obvious step.
- 2023/2000 -> 2.5.7.17; CWE 388.049¢ 289.369¢, CE 390.556¢ 288.428¢.
- Then, 7/5 will be reasonably biased flat due to being (20/17)^2, pulling it closer to 32/23. Also, the same supraminor third is close to 28/23 as well. This tempers out the 2.5.7.23 comma 161/160.
- 161/160 -> 2.5.7.17.23; CWE 387.534¢ 288.767¢, CE 390.950¢ 287.244¢.
- After that, things get messier. 13/11 can be easily equated to half of 7/5 by tempering out 847/845, and there are no better options than to do the same with 19/16, tempering out 1805/1792, even though this makes it very flat and the least accurate prime in the no-3 23-limit extension. It makes up for low accuracy with extremely low complexity, and makes 19/14 the octave complement of 25/17.
- 847/845, 1805/1792 -> 2.5.7.13/11.17.19.23; CWE 386.133¢ 289.374¢, CE 390.581¢ 288.351¢.
- The temperament ended up being rank-4 in the no-3 23-limit, so I looked for a good mapping for 11 and 13 with just the two important generators, and found one. I later learned that this equates 17/13 to 64/49, tempering out 833/832, which is a good choice. 11 and 13 are the most complex and may not be tuned as well, such as in 25edo and thus 50edo, but this temperament generally works.
- 833/832 -> 2.5.7.11.13.17.19.23; CWE 389.217¢ 289.608¢, CE 391.425¢ 288.482¢.
- So what do you do to add 3 and make it full 23-limit? It makes sense to either temper out 36/35 (Mint) for the low-complexity flat fifth or take advantage of the tuning range of 7 and temper out 1029/1024 (Slendric). Mint Pentagoth seems like it should be worse because of the very flat 3, but this allows 19/15 to be in tune. 5120/5103 (Aberschismic) tempering implies a gentle-region fifth; in fact, adding 5120/5103 to 2.5.7 Sidewalk results in 2.3.5.7[29 & 46], Leapday, of whose full 23-limit Pentagoth extension 46edo is the only reasonable patent-val tuning. It's also possible to add an accurate alternate 9 by tempering out 126/125 (Starling).
- 36/35 -> 23-limit; CWE 682.871¢ 390.965¢, CE 681.014¢ 392.071¢.
- 1029/1024 -> 23-limit[16 & 21 & 30]; CWE 677.955¢ 233.348¢, CE 679.315¢ 233.108¢.
- 5120/5103 -> 23-limit[46 & 53[-17, -23] & 58]; CWE 703.389¢ 389.431¢, CE 703.820¢ 391.381¢.
- 126/125 -> 2.9.5.7.11.13.17.19.23[9 & 21 & 37]; CWE 389.680¢ 100.487¢, CE 391.298¢ 102.695¢.
Sidewalk again
Composition theory
TODO
